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Eisner needs to be called on it....

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Re: Eisner needs to be called on it....

Postby metron12001 on Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:40 pm

I cringe when people use as a defense, "well, it was acceptable back then." Acceptable to whom? Now, I know that people who were not African American might not have been sensitive to racial stereotypes, but I doubt that very many black people were not offended by Ebony's portrayal. Could Eisner merely have been ignorant of what he was doing? Based on how intelligently he came across in interviews, I don't really buy that argument, but it's possible.
The only other possible explanation is that he was playing against type, to show Ebony on the surface as a stereotype, while it turns out that Ebony was an intelligent, attractive character underneath. Again, a possible explanation, but not one made obvious by what I've seen in the stories. So, it's a lingering question about a visually innovative and entertaining series, but a series with a flaw.

Allen Smith
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Re: Eisner needs to be called on it....

Postby carl on Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:19 am

metron12001 wrote: I cringe when people use as a defense, "well, it was acceptable back then. Acceptable to whom? Now, I know that people who were not African American might not have been sensitive to racial stereotypes, but I doubt that very many black people were not offended by Ebony's portrayal.....
Allen Smith

Allen,
That's easy for you to say. Over 60 years ago Ebony's portrayal was unfortunately acceptable to the vast majority of Americans, black & white. In the 1940's, when The Spirit was created, the US Army was still segregated. Remember, the American Civil War took place about the same 60 years before The Spirit was created as we currently are ahead of it.

Will Eisner was constantly ahead of his times as far as his art and storytelling was concerned, but perhaps his social and political views were not as far ahead at that time. Ebony became a stronger character after World War II, possibly based on Will Eisner's experiences during the war. After the war, Will Eisner was still a young man in his early 30's.

As much as one admires people for their contributions, one can't expect them to be at the same level in all facets of their lives. Will Eisner is recognized worldwide for his contribution to Sequential Art, but one must be understanding and not expect perfection.
My opinions,
Carl
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Re: Eisner needs to be called on it....

Postby Calum on Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:52 am

putting modern expectations and sensibilities on past scenarios will always lead to increased misunderstanding.

Don't misunderstand me, i am NOT saying that absolute ethics or morals change over time, just saying that context is everything. Imagine telling a bunch of people who had been slaves until that day that they are now free to work for their own money and raise their own families. Now imagine saying the same thing to blue collar factory workers in 1960s Detroit. Same words, in two different scenarios, one might provoke disbelief or even exuberance, the other incredulity or anger.

It's never accurate to just go "oh well, now we know that everybody used to be a racist, how could they have all been so stupid?" - i mean just think of all the horrible things we currently accept that will become known as absolutely abhorrent in the future (don't fool yourself, there are many).

None of us is really on the moral high ground.
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Spirit knows!
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