EISNER/MILLER

[Comic Book Boy]

Hey,

I figured we should have a thread devoted to this inspiring book. Post your favorite quotes, ideas, critiques, debates here and lets discuss their "argument."

[Al Nickerson]

I very much enjoyed EISNER/MILLER. It was interesting seeing such talents both agree and disagree on important issues. I especially liked Miller and Eisner’s discussion on Creator’s Rights and the Creators' Bill of Rights…

"I never subscribed to this Creators' Bill of Rights because I believed that there was no reality to it. In the marketplace, moral rights are often disregarded." -Will Eisner (EISNER/MILLER page 290)

Dennis Kitchen once told me:"I think Will's quote below comes from pragmatism; from being on both sides of the equation (being a creator, running a packaging house, and being a publisher) and from a long life of observing human nature, particularly with respect to employees, free-lancers, partners and competitors. Of course he believed in creators' rights. No one was fiercer in demanding them for himself, way before almost anyone else in the field. But he understood that there has to be a balance of rights. The C.B.R. was a political statement without a real effort at balance."

Also, I suppose since Will Eisner was quite aware of creator’s rights early on, that he may have felt that an actual Bill was unwarranted. However, not all creators are aware of what rights they have or what rights they can potentially sign away. So, I disagree with both Eisner and Kitchen that the Creators' Bill of Rights is not necessary.

I wonder if Charles Brownstein’s audio tapes that became EISNER/MILLER will ever be released?

[Al Nickerson]

I probably should point out that information on the Creator's Bill of Rights can be found at Scott McCloud's website and at "An Introduction to The Creator’s Bill of Rights".

[Comic Book Boy]

That's interesting stuff. I never caught the controversy that Eisner started with that statement.

Oh man, those audio tapes are priceless! Really priceless. I'm sure someone can put them up on iTunes easily. That really needs to happen.

Some interesting Eisner quotes from the book:
“When I read a book, I’m looking for what it is this guy is telling me. After it’s all over, it’s the way he’s telling it and what he’s told me.”
-WILL EISNER

“A key to my thinking has always been the almost fanatical belief that what I was engaged in was a literary art form. That belief was compounded out of ego and necessity, I guess, a combination of the two.”
-WILL EISNER

“I want to point out to adults that there is a world of good material available to you now in comic form - in this medium - and learn to give it your support because the more you support it, the better the material will be as it comes out.”
-WILL EISNER

“I've spent my whole life working in a medium that was regarded with contempt largely because of historical reasons.”
-WILL EISNER

“I am always completely amused when people refer to it as an “industry.” Or movies, calling movies an industry. It’s a profession; it’s an art form.”
-WILL EISNER

“The best comics are made when the writer and artist are in the same body.”
-WILL EISNER

[Calum]

see this is why those Spirit magazines are essential reading. They are full of this sort of thing, pages and pages of "shop Talk" with various other comics creators. The lettercol contributors used to moan about how that left less space for the Spirit, but i think i would have abandoned looking for old Spirit magazines by now if not for the non-Spirit material, and now i am well on the way to having a complete run of 41 issues!

sorry, was o/t, you can tell i haven't got the eisner/miller book, though i am sure it is at least as interesting as the Shop Talk interviews. Just out of interest, is there an accompanying pair of cartoons in the book? a Miller one of Eisner and an Eisner one of Miller?

[Comic Book Boy]

First of all, you HAVE to get this book. Secondly, to answer your question, the book contains illustrations of work from both creators.

[Calum]

ok, then i'll look out for it.

[jugoyan]

Yes, the 41 Warren/Kitchen Sink ( K.S. beginning with issue 17) are seminal and the best Eisner repro's, in my opinion, in the last forty years. If you get doubles, you may already know...the summer specials; numbers 10 and 16...and the one featuring the women villains, issue 8...are definitely worth having two copies of.
Go get these! They're definitely all well worth the four to five bucks average you can score them on ebay for.

[Calum]

ebay has been a godsend for this actually. as a youth i never dreamed i would get all of these. just findind a half dozen or so in a comic shop while away on holiday would be the major point of the whole summer, and of course having to decide which one or two of them i could afford!

but now with the good old www prices are down, anybody sells an issue across about a third of the world and i can bid for it, plus the www makes it far easier to find things out, like that it stopped at issue 41 (which you wouldn't know by buying the comics unless you had issue 41 itself).

now i've got so few gaps in my Spirit magazine run that i may as well complete it, despite my aim to get all the DC Archive Spirit books (excluding 6 to 10 of course (and i could do without 11 too, though now i own it i'll probably not ever part with it)). As i said, the "Shop Talk" and other "droning on about sequential art" sections make it worthwhile anyway for me, even if i have read the Spirit stories elsewhere.

[jugyan]

When it comes to ebay, I stand guilty as charged. I've all but stopped going to my local comic book shop. First of all, the time is a stopper, because unlike when I was single or first married b.c. (before children) I had all the time I wanted to peruse and pick. No longer. Anyone who tells me they have kids and has time for comic shops either owns the shop or has a lot of money to pay for nannies.
Also, price, price, price. I'm actually surprised that the comic shops I've visited here in New York, including the big city itself, stubbornly cling to prices that are sky high what you can net them for on ebay.
The Spirit being one example, I've never seen them in any shop except at prices that approach ten dollars each. I've often scored Spirits in fine or better condition on ebay for three or four dollars each. I think many stores count on customers who don't want to take the time to ebay, or have the money and don't care. But if you're dollar strapped,...well, for me at least, except for bags and boards which are often too expensive to ship, I really don't do the stores much anymore. It's ebay all the way. The time, the money, as you mentioned, the knowledge of rare issues all at your fingertips...you can't beat it.

Colum, as you did me a favor with the "Ken" website, here's a heads up for you and anyone else reading. The best website on ebay or elsewhere that I've ever bought comics from is in Texas.
( I hate to admit that as I loathe a lot of other things about the state.) It's a comic store that goes by mycomicshop.com ...They brag that they offer for sale 62% of all comics ever published, and I don't doubt it. You can have a field day there! They do have everything and I mean everything!
And their shipping is the lowest I've ever seen. You'll have to work out your overseas prices, but their U.S. rate is three dollars, then just .10 cents for each additional mag or book!
And talk about packing. It's all shrink wrapped and taped and shipped super tight. I've never had a problem and I don't know how they can send things so cheaply.

But the real great thing about them is their quality grading...It seems to me at least, that they generally grade down a grade for whatever you're getting. If they say very good, it's often on ebay what I've found other folks fine to be...
The Spirits I've got there have been around three dollars each for the fine Kitchen Sink ( 17-41) mags. Please save some for me, but you don't want to miss this place. Go there today, and you'll have a ball...promise!

[Calum]

okay, i'll look out for it then.